Drumcultures

By Oswald Phills

Drumcultures: I'm talking to Richard Cumberbatch, better known as Popcorn. He is one of the long time roots drummers in Toronto, doing a lot of Afro Caribbean drumming! What do you feel about the drumming that's happening in Toronto these days?

Popcorn: Well, its happening! But its happening in different frameworks or styles. There are people who are into the pure stuff, this is traditional, this is how you play it. Then you have people who blend different ways. Then you have people who just doin' what they feel like. So you have those different categories. I try to mix myself in between wherever its happening. So I can see who's doing what and hear what's going on. For me, being able to jump from one to the other makes me into a better drummer, a better person.

Drumcultures: You've experienced the expansion of drumming in the city over the last number of years.

Popcorn: Yes. Absolutely. When I first started back in the day, there wasn't much happening. There was just a few guys who were playing. And a lot of people who were playing back then did it like a side thing. Like a hobby. Yo, come to rehearsal this Wednesday - Oh no I can't because I have to work and stuff like that. So there wasn't any professional people doing it when I first came on the scene and was playing, late 80's, early 90's.

Drumcultures: Who are the professional groups in town that you've played with?

Popcorn: Oh there is COBA, Ballet Creole, and I do freelance with other groups like Ijo Vudu. I did some performances with Iya Dancers - I don't know if they're still together. So many people! (laughter)

Drumcultures: Have you been doing any teaching of drumming?

Popcorn: Yes. I'm teach young people 17 and under.

Drumcultures: What's it like working with younger people?

Popcorn: They are more receptive. They're open to new stuff. When they ask me to play a rhythm I play it and they see exactly what I'm doing. I then explain that I don't expect them to play what I just played. I tell them that they have to get the rhythm and play it better than me! I expect the student to add some of their own self into the rhythm then take it to a next level! Yet I always stress that technique is very important.

Drumcultures: In terms of how people feel about their life, what do you think young people get out of drumming?

Popcorn: When I speak to young people I try to tie every thing into the drumming. I try to show them that the drum is like any other instrument, you play it, you don't beat it! I say you play the drum. Anybody could come and beat! But when you practice and train, you play the instrument. So when somebody comes to ask what rhythm are you beating? I say no, this is a rhythm I'm playing. If you check out a violinist you wouldn't say that they're sawing the violin, (laughter) they'll say that they're playing the violin. A pianist wouldn't say that they're pounding on the piano keys, they'll say that they're playing the piano. People play every other instrument except the drum.

Drumcultures: The drum takes a beating...

Popcorn: Yes. The drum carries a beat not a beating. I tell them that the drum is an instrument that will hurt you if you intend to beat up on it. It will hurt you.

Drumcultures: You've been drumming all your life.

Popcorn: Oh yes, even since around age eleven.

Drumcultures: Who was your first teacher?

Popcorn: It was a guy back in the islands where I came from...

Drumcultures: Trinidad...

Popcorn: (Smiling) The Republic of Trinidad and Tobago...

Drumcultures: (laughter) Great...

Popcorn: This guy named Danny White. He was a dancer, dance teacher and drummer. Also he was either Shango or Baptist priest. He was one of the top limbo dancers in Trinidad, you know the small coke bottle, in his hay days he used to go under that.

Drumcultures: Cool.

Popcorn: Before there were competitions called Best Village, there used to be competitions between schools and he came to teach us dance and drums. I was just standing around and he asked if I wanted to come and drum. I said sure! But I didn't tell my parents that I was doing that or else that would have been a whole heap of trouble! ( Laughter )

Drumcultures: A whole thing!

Popcorn: ( Laughter ) Yes, a whole heap of trouble... So I learned the rhythm and we practice and we went to perform. There were other schools there watching. For me it was an eye opener because when I was younger and growing up I was hearing the drums, seeing the guys playing, but at that age I wasn't allowed to go. When I was growing up the drums were "bad and evil" depending on what side of the Slave Master ideology you grew up under. People bad talk drum. They say this and that. But as you get a little older you get to learn about the drum and how important it was to African slaves. A lot of people from Trinidad don't like to make that link because then they'd see themselves as descendants of slaves. Which is a nasty thing! All of that was knocking on me. Ever since I was young I was telling people that I was African! There was always a big argument about that.

Drumcultures: People didn't want to own that identity.

Popcorn: They didn't want to own that. But in order to get that link you have to own that identity. You have to acknowledge that you didn't know much about what was happening on the continent. For example in order to get slaves from Africa Europeans also had to enslave people over there! So you had Europeans, and though people don't like to mention it, you also had the Arabs that came with them to help them to transport and take over part of Africa. You know still people say that Egypt is in the Middle East, but I tell people that its North Africa. And people look at me funny for that. All these kinds of things I bring to people's mind so that they open up. With the drum again I get to meet a lot of people from different parts of Africa and different parts of the world. Its good, its nice.

Drumcultures: You seem to be a really chilled out person, is that from your drumming?

Popcorn: (Laughter) I guess I can say yes. If you apply the discipline that you have when you're learning to drum, working with people, you have to develop some sort of character or personality. You know back home I was a feisty little young guy to say the truth. But when I play the drum I can play for two hours straight and just chill. In the early days, sometimes when I went to rehearsal nobody showed up! So I'd have use of a space that was booked for say three hours! I'd have my drum with me and I'd play. Maybe someone would come and look in then go away and come back and they'd ask - What do you smoke? ( Laughter ) I'd say, no I just play the drum and just....

Drumcultures: There's a meditative part to this...

Popcorn: Yes. It takes me to another level. It helps me to look at things differently. It does help me to relax and take things cool.

Drumcultures: Where do you see yourself going? What's your vision for your drumming?

Popcorn: Oooh.

Drumcultures: Do you have a vision? Or do you want more of the same?

Popcorn: ( Laughter ) I never really think about that, I just let things fall into place. But I like to see the culture lift. In my early days they used to call me the Drum Ho, because every group you looked at there I was! I played for singers, dancers, poets, background music for plays, the whole shebang. When people come and ask me to do stuff I say, 'well lets see.' I try to produce what they want for their show. To do that you have to have some kind of openness, relaxation, because without that its often trouble when you have to work with people.

Drumcultures: You're often down at Saikou's Drum Shop visiting. That's one of your spots! What do you find there?

Popcorn: Everything! ( Laughter ) Camaraderie. People come in there and we'd talk politics, drum, this, that and the other. Its nice, its nice. The whole atmosphere about it is nice. I don't know how people feel about it, but I don't mind when Saikou brings up a skin that has been soaking in water for a couple of days so it has that pungent smell. ( laughter ) It don't bother me. I watch him fix a drum, sometimes I'll help him. If he's not there and his wife is there and somebody wants to buy a drum and they ask me to tune it, no problem. I'll do that. I'll even help people who're now coming to buy a drum. I'll play it for them to hear how it sounds. I tell people its my retirement home ( laughter )

Drumcultures: ( Laughter )

Popcorn: Once I'm on holidays from all my other dance drumming work, you find me down by Saikou's a lot a lot!

Drumcultures: ( Laughter ) One more question. They have a wonderful photograph of you down at the Canadian Opera House at Queen and University. Its a great shot. There you are in full color with other artists. Thats a nice place to have a drummer. How did that come about?

Popcorn: In the Fall or Winter they have lunch time performances, so COBA and Ballet Creole performed there several times and when we first came in the Opera House people said that there was a photographer who will be taking pictures for promotional stuff. So everybody in the groups said fine. So they took a picture of me performing with COBA and Ballet Creole. I forgot about it until a brother came up like "Hey, Popcorn there's a picture of you....!" I'm like, "A picture of me? What poster? What are you taking about? He's like, "Yeah in that place on Queen!" I kind of took me a while to recall it because, you know me, I just smoothly go along. But then I said Oh, okay, okay! I then remembered what it was and why it was done.

Drumcultures: Excellent. ( Laughter! )

Popcorn: Its nice, its nice. Now I say look, if you're making a poster you can take my picture because I'm the drumming poster guy!(Laughter)

Drumcultures: ( Laughter ) Thank you.

Popcorn: You're welcome. Migwetch.

All photography on this site is by Oswald Phills unless otherwise indicated. / Copyrights 2011 / Design by Anthony Phills